In this episode celebrating 250 years of America, we explore how the nation’s identity has been shaped locally and nationally. First, Olubunmi Bakare talks with Monica Miller about the DC Public Library’s new exhibition, “District Vibes: American Pride – How DC Changed American Culture.” Then, Chris Stevenson interviews David McKean and Todd Bennett about their book “The Flag Was Still There,” examining how the U.S. has lived up to its founding ideals across five major anniversaries.
In this episode celebrating 250 years of America, we explore how the nation’s identity has been shaped locally and nationally. First, Olubunmi Bakare talks with Monica Miller about the DC Public Library’s new exhibition, “District Vibes: American Pride – How DC Changed American Culture.” Then, Chris Stevenson interviews David McKean and Todd Bennett about their book “The Flag Was Still There,” examining how the U.S. has lived up to its founding ideals across five major anniversaries.
Music used in this episode
"Smooth Chill Jazzy Music" by AllWorldMusic
https://pixabay.com/music/smooth-jazz-smooth-chill-jazzy-music-275395/
"The Washington Post" Music by John Philip Sousa performed by the "The Presidents Own" United States Marine Band
https://www.marineband.marines.mil/Audio-Resources/The-Complete-Marches-of-John-Philip-Sousa/The-Washington-Post-March/
"Summer Lounge In The City" by myshoun
https://pixabay.com/music/beats-summer-lounge-in-the-city-223397/
"The Star Spangled Banner" performed by Jake Shimabukuro
https://dn720308.ca.archive.org/0/items/js2006-06-09/js2006-06-09d1t13.mp3
Jazzy Lofi - Calm background Loop by Sonican
https://pixabay.com/music/smooth-jazz-jazzy-lofi-calm-background-loop-541849/
Olubunmi Bakare 0:02
You're listening to the DC Public Library podcast, where we bring you conversations from the capital city. We're recording from the labs recording studio inside the historic and newly modernized Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library in downtown Washington, DC. In this episode, we're celebrating 250 years of America by exploring stories, voices, and moments that make this country what it is today. In our segment, Get Lit, Chris Stevenson interviews David McKean and Todd Bennett about their book, The Flag Was Still There: A History. history of the American experiment and five anniversaries, which takes a look at the Declaration of Independence and analyzes where the US stands in its declarations at every 50 year celebration. But first up is our all things local segment, where I'll be in conversation with exhibit coordinator Monica Miller to discuss the DC Public Library's newest exhibition, District Vibes American Pride: How DC Changed American Culture, the Welcome to the All Things Local segment, where we highlight DC's history, culture, communities, and the remarkable individuals who have shaped and are continuing to shape Washington, DC. I am your host, Olubumi Bakare, Benjamin Banneker, Chita Rivera, Tim Gunn, Dave Chappelle, and Roberta Flack. These individuals may come from different worlds and time periods, but they all share one thing: a connection to Washington, DC. Because Washington, DC isn't just a federal city, it's a vibrant blend of neighborhoods and communities that, for generations, have shaped America's history and imagination. Within just 68 square miles, Washingtonians have sparked mesical revolutions, pioneered life-saving medical breakthroughs, patented scientific innovations, and inspired game-changing ideas in sports education and the arts to celebrate America's 250th birthday. The DC Public Library has brought all of this together in an exciting new exhibition, District Vibes American Pride: How DC Changed American culture showcases the unique and powerful contributions Washingtonians have made to the nation's culture and history. It tells DC story through striking images, rare artifacts, and interactive displays. Joining me to talk about this new and dynamic exhibition is Monica Miller. Monica is one of the exhibit coordinators here at the DC Public Library, and her specialty is the history of Washington, DC. Monica, welcome to All Things Local. It's wonderful to have you here. What sparked the original idea for this exhibition?
Monica Miller 3:40
I work with a team of exhibits people, so it's Linnea Hegarty, Natalie Campbell, and myself, and we bounce around ideas when we're preparing, when we have exhibits that we're preparing for, and we knew we wanted to do something honoring the 250th anniversary of the founding of the country, and it was really, I think, Linnea's idea to center in on what DC has given the country over the history of the city, and from there it was really easy. It was an easy run, but it was really the team, the exhibits team, that came up with the idea.
Olubunmi Bakare 4:19
How did you ensure that the final exhibition was representative of the city, the diversity in the city?
Monica Miller 4:26
When we initially started planning the exhibit, we tried to plan it along a timeline, and that was really frustrating, because it just didn't want to be on a timeline. If that makes any sense, I don't know how to explain it, but we realized the best way to tell the history of the city and what the city has given the country was through separating it into different ideas, such as people who did a lot with education, people who did a lot with music, people who did a lot with activism. In doing that, we were also. Able to, it was a bit of a Venn diagram, for instance, your first thought on Marvin Gaye might be that he's a musician, but his music was also very tied into activism, especially his later albums, and so we wanted to be able to allow Washingtonians to be in more than one area and refer to one, but that's how we came up with the idea of having education, economic advance movement, migration, the impact that immigrants, both from within the country and outside of the country, had on the city, or have had on the city service. We even have a section called Famous Faces, which were people who were not necessarily completely tied to the city, but may have been here for a while, short while, and did something really important that impacted the country, and then moved on.
Olubunmi Bakare 5:54
So, you touched on some of the major themes. So, can you share with our listeners what those major themes are
Monica Miller 6:01
sure when you first walk in, if you follow sort of a counterclockwise pattern. The first one you'll come across is education. We have the first high school for African Americans in the country was started here in DC. We had a really strong public school education system at a very early age, we have more universities per square mile than any other major city in the country, other than New York and Boston, and our universities, we have really strong, great schools here. From universities, you end up in movement and migration, which includes, we had the largest community of Ethiopians outside of Ethiopia in the world. Groups have come through in waves in the city: Irish, Jews, Italians, Koreans, and we had a huge number of blue-collar Appalachians that came to the city as coal mining industry started to shut down. All of those groups had a major impact on the city. Music was probably the most fun part, and it's certainly the one that people really respond to a lot, because they always.. there's somebody in there for everybody, between John Philip Sousa, Hans Kindler, to really recent. do we have go go and punk, but my favorite section is probably in some ways activism and service, or they're separate activism, because we did impact lives for people across the country through activism. Service is not necessarily, it's different from the others. The others have a lot of fun. There's a lot of joy. Service is a lot of pride, but it's much more somber because it's about Washingtonians who have served in wars, as we've been called up, and the people who've made this supreme sacrifice while still not having a vote in Congress.
Olubunmi Bakare 7:59
Is there a particular innovation or breakthrough that's featured in this exhibition that's your favorite. I have one that I want to share, but I want to hear what yours is, though. The one
Monica Miller 8:08
that I found most sort of surprising was NASCAR. It never occurred to me that Big Bill France, the founder of NASCAR, was not only born and raised in DC, but lived here until his mid 30s, the one that has the most fun to talk about with other people is the huddle, the football huddle, and how that was started at Gallaudet in the late 1880s So those are two that first come to mind.
Olubunmi Bakare 8:35
Mine is the penny farthing was that created here.
Monica Miller 8:39
Okay, so the reason that's in there is, and this is a really interesting.. I didn't know any of this before researching,
Olubunmi Bakare 8:47
and explain to people what a penny farthing is.
Monica Miller 8:50
Penny farthings, or high wheelers, are the first early bicycles that you see, where the front tire or the back tire, if it's a back tire, it's a star. If it's a front tire, it's a high wheeler. Is about 54 inches high, and the back, the secondary tire is really small, maybe 10 inches high. They function not unlike two wheel tricycles, and for that reason, with remember, how your tricycle had to have the pedals in the middle of the front tire. These bicycles had to have the pedals in the middle of the front tire. You couldn't, the big tire, and that's how you got speed. And the bigger the tire, the faster you could go. We were really popular among bike enthusiasts as a city because Boss Shepherd had graded all of our roads, and we had really great surfaces for bicycling, and I think one of the.. I'm terrible with numbers, so please don't hold my feet to the fire on this one, but I think it were about 14,000 bicycles, high wheel bicycles, around the city at one point. None of which were written by a woman, because women wore long skirts, these bikes, because the pedals were in the middle of the tire. Soon as you got on, you had to either bunch your skirts up, and they would get caught in the tires, and you're not allowed.
Olubunmi Bakare 10:13
So women attempted to ride these. No, they didn't. Women did not bike. Women
Monica Miller 10:18
were, were, were allowed to ride these massive kind of four wheel very heavy contraptions, so a bicycle had a number of bicycle designers in DC, two of which, when the guy in England designed what was called the safety bike, the safety bike is the bike that we are all familiar with, where the front tire and the back tire are the same size, and the pedals are located between the tires, so instead of pedals being on a tire in the middle of a tire, this was between the tires, and they looked like boys' bikes with a triangular sort of frame with the tire on the front and the back, and both two bicycle designers here in DC. One of them was on New York Avenue, and I can't remember where the other one was located. Both ordered safety bicycles from England. They got them here, and they looked at them, thought, I can make this bike, I can adapt this bike for women to ride it, and they both started working on their designs at the same time. There's some discussion, debating about who got their patent in first and who got their bike out first, but the result was the very first women to be seen on a bicycle in public were here in DC, going down Pennsylvania Avenue, and it made national news. It upset a number of male reporters, in fact, and getting women on bicycles. Susan B. Anthony felt was a major step towards suffrage for women, allowing women the right to vote, the freedom that having a bicycle and being able to maneuver it and get it out of the house by themselves and get on it and bike around was a really important step in getting women towards the vote. We also have a wonderful collection from the Capital Bike Club, which existed, I want to say, around the turn of the 1900s and 1900s Their clubhouse was right here on in the 900 block of G Street, about where Digi Commons is located in our building, and it was all men on high wheelers or penny farthings, as and the name Penny Farthing, by the way, came from a coin that was big and a coin that was little, that's sort of how people understand it, other people say it came from the fact that people made fun of the bikes and said it's not even worth a penny or a far thing, so I'm not sure what the story is on the name, but
Olubunmi Bakare 12:49
so staying with DC's history and thinking about this exhibition, is there a specific era in Washington's history that fascinates you more than others?
Monica Miller 13:00
I believe it was at the early years of the Berry administration. There was so much vitality, so much energy in the city, and when you look at the art and the music being created in that period, it was really kind of amazing. His first term was a really exciting term. He was part of a group of young African American mayors who'd been elected into office after the civil rights movement, and a lot of there was a lot of optimism and energy, and Marion Barry was an incredibly personable politician. He was smart. I've met people who worked with him in his first administration who were amazed by how good he was at understanding regulations and rules, and what you could do, and what you couldn't do, and what was permittable. And so I do think that energy of having a vote or having our early councils are having control, we were able to name this building. This building, when it was started, was a federal project in 66 and the feds decided who was going to design it, and where it was going to be located, and how it was going to be built. And by the time it was completed, it was a municipal project, and Washingtonians said we're naming it in honor of Dr. King, and it was named, and it was an early, so I just think it was an exciting period in our city's history.
Olubunmi Bakare 14:30
What do you hope visitors will take away from seeing this exhibition?
Monica Miller 14:34
What I feel like is the past couple years have been really hard on Washingtonians. I feel like DC has been really kicked around a lot, and we forget in all the struggling how much good there is here, and I'm hoping people walking through this exhibit we really made a point of bringing out the things that were fun and joyful of. Um, Kermit the Frog. I mean, I didn't know till I worked on this exhibit that Kermit was born on Channel Four here in DC. I hope people go through it feeling really good about their city, whether you were born here or you just chose to stay here and be the kind of Washingtonians, those born here, and those who come here and stay, and I do hope it brings them a feeling of just joy of being from this community.
Olubunmi Bakare 15:32
We're going to switch things up a bit, going to have a little bit of fun before I let you go. We have a little something that we do here on all things local, we call it Fast Five. I'm going to ask you a few rapid fire questions, and I want you to give me the first answer that comes to mind. Ready? What is your favorite book?
Monica Miller 15:54
The one I'm reading, whatever I'm reading, is always my favorite book. And right now, I'm. what am I reading? I'm reading Mansfield Park, so I always turn back to Jane Austen.
Olubunmi Bakare 16:06
Coffee or tea while working on District Vibes.
Monica Miller 16:09
Coffee, coffee, coffee, coffee,
Olubunmi Bakare 16:11
thinking about Washington, DC, and the many individuals who have shaped the city. Which historical figure, living or dead, would you most like to have dinner with
Monica Miller 16:21
Snowden Ashford. He was our first municipal architect, and he designed Eastern High School.
Olubunmi Bakare 16:27
What's your favorite historical site in Washington?
Monica Miller 16:30
Oh, that's a hard one. Probably the west front of the Capitol, and unfortunately it's no longer accessible. It used to be open at night, beautiful for sunsets.
Olubunmi Bakare 16:41
And finally, thinking about the musical artists featured in this exhibition, and all the incredible talent that's come from this city. If District Vibes had its own soundtrack, what would be the very first song on that soundtrack?
Monica Miller 16:57
Marvin Gaye, it would have to be Marvin Gaye, which
Olubunmi Bakare 17:01
song,
Monica Miller 17:01
what's going on? Probably, I mean, it's the best album with some of the best songs. I would have to be Marvin Gaye.
Olubunmi Bakare 17:10
Monica, thank you for joining me on all things local.
Monica Miller 17:13
Oh, thank you for having me. It's been great.
Chris Stevenson 17:22
One of my favorite library stories to tell is about an elderly black man who was a returning citizen. He came up to me one day and said, "Hey, Chris, I was watching this movie the other day, and it was about how white people fought white people in a war to free black people, and I was wondering if that was a true thing. And I said, are you talking about the American Civil War? He said, I don't know, I just wasn't sure if it was a real depiction of events. He apologized and said that he had been locked up for most of his life and didn't really care to know much of anything, especially history. History is for white guys, he said, but he was stunned to find out that white people would kill each other to free black people. I told him that the war was probably a bit more complicated than most movie shows, and I recommended a couple intro books to the Civil War. He came back a couple weeks later, pointing out something confusing, and asked me for a clarification. Look, cuss, he said it says here in this history book that America was founded in 1776 but Harvard University, which I know is in Massachusetts, was founded in 1636 How can Massachusetts exist before America? Well, there were colonies. What do you mean? he asked. "And the error here was mine as a librarian. This man, to his own admission, barely had a fifth grade education. How could he understand the Civil War if he didn't know what came before? I directed him to a PBS series on pre-Columbian America, and then one on colonial America. Needless to say, he came back horrified, but also even more curious, saying so 1776 is when the Declaration of Independence was signed. He followed up with, Why does the Declaration of Independence say that all men are created equal with inalienable rights? When the colonists were enslaving people and killing Native Americans, striving to be a good librarian, I didn't answer any of the questions, just directed him to more resources. And over the course of eight years, I watched this gentleman learn more and more, and develop his own interpretation of what the United States of America is. The United States is celebrating 250 years this month, and all across the country there will be parades celebrating the signing of the Declaration of Independence. The capital city is known for its big. Annual star-studded show on the mall and in the neighborhoods of Washington, D.C. Music blares from speakers while grills are alight and the air fills with roasting wieners and burgers, creating virtual block parties. Fireworks, which you might think are illegal, are set off anyway, while police patrol to the concussive sound of exploding rockets in Takoma Park, one of the nation's longest standing Fourth of July parades marches down the center of town in a colorful display of the community's diversity of people and fun, but what happened 250 years ago? Most of us learned about the basics in grade school, and in modern times you can almost tell one's politics by simply listening to which stories are a person's favorite and their interpretation of those stories. One thing's for sure, though, the Declaration of Independence serves as the United States of America's birth certificate. Today we talked to two people, David McKean and Todd Bennett, who could have offered that returning citizen some answers. In fact, they wrote a whole book about America's birth certificate and the country it represents, analyzing it from its beginnings and checking in on the principles noted in the document every 50 years. The book is called The Flag Was Still There: A History of the American experiment in five anniversaries. Trade journal Kirkus refers to the book as a richly detailed, thought-provoking celebration of American independence, and The Wall Street Journal says of the book a hopeful reminder during America's 250th year that although our history has been marked by argument and even discord, the occasion to look to the nation's founding principles presents another opportunity to renew their spirit. David McKeen is the former US Ambassador to Luxembourg and was the director of policy planning in the Department of State. The author or co-author of six previous books, he divides his time between Washington, D.C.
Chris Stevenson 22:00
New Hampshire, and North Carolina. Todd Bennett is a professor of history at East Carolina University. He was formerly a historian at the US Department of State. This is Get Lit, a segment about everything literary and book related. I am your host, Christopher Stevenson. Welcome, gentlemen. What about that library patrons question? Why is there a dissonance between what the document says as an ideal and how the colonists and American government treated the people afterward?
David McKean 22:32
You know, that is really such a fundamental question. It's a great question, and it's not actually a simple answer to it, but I think the best answer that we can give is that the Declaration of Independence is an aspirational document. It sets out a litany of grievances against England, but the beginning of it is really a hopeful set of principles that the founders, who were all white men, but the founders hoped that America would achieve over time, and you know it's something that we've struggled with now for 250 years. We've made a lot of progress in certain areas, but there are many areas that remain unfulfilled.
Todd Bennett 23:25
Yeah, and this is Todd here, by the way. Thank you for thank you for having us. And yeah, just to add to that, you know, when Thomas Jefferson, who was the principal author of the Declaration in 1776 Jefferson was a slave holder, and to your point, there's this huge gap in experience and reality between Jefferson, a slaveholder who traveled to Philadelphia to write those words in 1776 who was attended by Robert Hemings, who was an enslaved person, a half sibling to Sally Hemings, who's become famous over time. So Jefferson's document didn't spoke about unalienable rights and human equality at the same time that people were enslaved in the United States, including on Jefferson's plantation in Monticello, you know, it didn't address the rights, say anything really, much of anything about the millions of Native Americans who inhabited North America in 1776 and didn't say anything about how those rights that he spoke about in the declaration applied to half the population, women, right, but like David was saying, those words, and I think this is really a key takeaway, is those words, human equality, unalienable rights, government exists to protect those rights and. And enjoys its powers, exerts power by the consent of the governed. Those are words that have been extremely influential over time, and have really defined, in the eyes of many, what America is all about. Right, those are the civic values that we, as Americans, hold in common to some degree, irrespective of gender, irrespective of race, irrespective of politics, irrespective of place, those are civic values that hold us together as Americans, and over 250 years, I think of the story of America is one of it's a continuous work in progress, trying to achieve those aspirations that were laid down in 7017 76 never quite achieving them. We've made tremendous progress in 250 years by almost any measure, never quite getting there, but continually trying,
Chris Stevenson 26:02
so one of the things that you do throughout this book is, which I find fascinating, is you do check in every 50 years. So, how was America doing at its first jubilee?
David McKean 26:16
Well, you know, just to sort of build upon that, the reason we do that is because these 50 year celebrations are really a time for that Americans traditionally will reflect on sort of what their country is doing at the time and the state of the state of democracy really and there and it also is a time to sort of think about, you know, their hopes for the future, so the first Jubilee, 1826 I mean, this is a really kind of extraordinary moment, because there are only three of the original founders, three of the original signers of the Declaration of Independence, who are still alive. One of them is Charles Carroll from Maryland, the other two are John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, and these are these are really the two major figures in terms of both writing the Declaration of Independence and getting it passed in the Congress at the time, and said it so happens that they both die on july 4 1826 the exact 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. It's an extraordinary time, and I think, for you know, I think what it really, really symbolized was that it was a really a sort of a passing of the torch. America had changed a great deal during this period, and it was time for a new group of leaders to take charge and to set the course for America, but many of the, you know, many of the issues that Todd talked about just a few minutes ago in terms of race and in terms of how we treated indigenous, indigenous Americans, and the role of women. Those issues were still very much, very much prevalent, and you know, very much on the minds of, particularly, the people they affected, but of all Americans.
Todd Bennett 28:02
Yeah, I think that, as David said, that's what's interesting about that chapter, and all the 5050 year anniversaries is they're really important, right, in terms of measuring the American journey over time, and at each way station, as we said earlier, the country's a work in progress, tremendous progress from one anniversary to another, geographic growth, economic growth, expansion of rights, but it's still a way station on to something in the future, and so American 18 726 different from 1776 but one that in many ways I think that we Americans would hardly recognize today, and in part one example would be 1/5 of the nation is still in bondage in 1826
Chris Stevenson 28:54
So, and then you move into the centennial, which is marked by the Statue of Liberty being built, the Battle of Little Bighorn. What's striking is you guys also talk about the red shirts, this paramilitary wing of the then Democratic Party. The big event, of course, was the election of Rutherford Hayes. What does it say with the Civil War having ended, and then with Rutherford Hayes, there's quite literally just another revolution of sorts. How do you feel about how we're doing in 1876
David McKean 29:27
So 1876 is a really interesting year. It's that it's as you said, it's the centennial, it's the 100th anniversary of the United States. It's a relief at the Declaration of Independence, and you know to me it's a really fascinating time, because there's a huge fair in Philadelphia, where literally, you know, there are 1000s of exhibits, the buildings that they house these exhibits in are, you know, they're monumental, they're just huge, and. Um, there it's located in Fairmont Park, which is just outside of Philadelphia. 120 countries are represented with exhibits that the Emperor of Brazil attends, President Grant comes to it, and it's a big success. Actually, it's showcasing American innovation, American inventions, American progress, but on the outside, in the rest of the country, there's a lot swirling around, which, which you've just alluded to, there's a very hotly contested presidential election going on, and the key issue really is race, in many ways, the in the West, you know, Custer's last stand happens almost exactly at the same time as the Fourth of July celebration, and then in South Carolina, and you mentioned this, there's a, there's a massacre of black Americans by the Red Shirts, which you know was really indicative of the state of race relations at the time, and then this election to get back to the election of Hayes and Tilden, you know, that was the sort of at the time it was post civil war, reconstruction was in progress, in the post civil war blacks were in the south were doing, doing better, there was federal protection, there were a number, actually, of African American office holders at the time, but with the election of Brother Rutherford B. Hayes, there was a rollback of Reconstruction, and the really the onslaught of Jim Crow for the next several decades, and so it really set it, set our country back.
Todd Bennett 31:40
Yeah, and David, I think, put that beautifully. I think the only thing I would add would be, here's a perfect example of, I think, one of the themes of the book is that these anniversaries are important waystations, and sometimes they show the nation making progress, significant progress in some areas, but so, but for every step back, excuse me, step forward in one or another area, there's oftentimes two steps back in another way. And here's a pro, as you say, the 1876 ends with a disputed election that leads to Rutherford B. Hayes coming into office and also marks the end of Reconstruction and the beginning of a long period of decades of Jim Crow segregation that will only be ended with the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 60s, another 75 years in the future, so progress, but also regression in some ways.
David McKean 32:43
Yeah, absolutely.
Chris Stevenson 32:44
After 1876 as you all know, Jim Crow, but also waves of immigration, almost as if sort of like the United States is just beginning to try to figure out who it is. That particular chapter is just. it's sometimes too close to home. Tell it, tell us what's going on in 1926 How are we doing in 1926
Todd Bennett 33:08
Yeah, we, I think Dave and I had that same sense. There were a number of surprises in writing the book, some pleasant, some less so. And this was one, is the way in which 1926 really rhymed with 2026 in so many ways, and I suspect the story that we both have in mind is to share with listeners. We're recording this in downtown Washington, DC, where in within a stone's throw of 100 years ago, from where we sit right now, the 1000s of members of the Ku Klux Klan marched openly down Pennsylvania Avenue, America's main street, from the US Capitol to the White House, thought by this, as I say, by the 1000s in formation, and also a detail, sometimes details are important. One that we found significant was what that many of them marched with their hoods up, unmasked for their faces to see, which suggested that they felt like they were able to operate with a degree of impunity at the same time as the KKK marched openly through the nation's capital, they marched within earshot of a row house on Ninth Street in Washington, DC's northwest quadrant, where a historian by the name of Carter G. Woodson worked, lived, and worked, and he was tabulating the results of the nation's first Negro History Week, as it was then known, the origins of Black History Month today, and so I think what that chapter does, and that anniversary does is again show. Of America at a certain point in its development that rhymes with 2026 in many ways, nativism is at a height was a great place to be, America was in the 1920 if you were white and male and Protestant and native born, not so much if you were Catholic or Jewish, or born else, or an immigrant, or woman, or black, but a nation, too, where there were people working for change, sometimes quietly, but working nevertheless, and in ways that would pay huge dividends over the years,
David McKean 35:41
Yeah. You know, I think one of the things that I think Todd said, this, that we people who have read this book are sort of struck by how much history rhymes, particularly 2026 and 1926 You know, there's a pandemic that occurs before the before the celebration in 1926 the world war, which is obviously world war one, which is actually in the end quite unpopular, and but it's also a time when the United States is on the world stage very much as a key player, in fact we're we're an imperially imperialist power at the time, with holdings in the Philippines and Cuba, and so there are a lot of some one sort of funny, you know, example is, or interesting example, I don't know how funny it is, is there was a, you know, again another huge fair in Philadelphia, which does not do anywhere near as well as the one just 50 years earlier. In fact, one of the ways that they have to sort of financially prop it up is they have a huge boxing match between Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney, who's a former Marine, and Dempsey would not fight a black man, he refused to do that, and actually, interestingly, he was a heavy favorite, and he lost that, that, that boxing match, but you know, it does sort of resonate somewhat with what you're seeing just in a few days at the White House, where there's going to be a, I think, a cage wrestling match, so there's some, there's some just sort of striking, some striking similarities between the two, the two
Todd Bennett 37:26
years, and yeah, that I think that's a great story, and just one other small detail that I think is interesting to speak to the point of the way in which 1926 rhymes with 2026 in some ways is as David was suggesting, a time of tremendous change, the Spanish flu epidemic, a global pandemic that had killed millions of people, both worldwide and here in the United States, a divisive war in World War One that was costly, and many Americans felt was a mistake in retrospect, kind of a, an early version of a forever war, but then, but also tremendous technological change too, as you suggested, automobiles are prevalent, motion pictures, the radio, and I think one thing that we were struck by is at this time of tremendous change that many Americans felt bewildered in the world, and some Americans, not all, half the country voted against him, half supported him when he ran for election in 1924 but a president, Calvin Coolidge, known as Silent Cal, a man of few words, but was the first radio president, and was able to use, here's the rhyme, was able to use a relatively new technology, radio to appeal to people who his supporters, many of whom felt left out and bewildered, and he provided them some sense of normality that may not rhyme, but the use of a new media at that time to speak to voters, I think, does kind of resonate.
David McKean 39:16
Absolutely, just one other thing, you know, in terms of the technology, I mean, we had really gone through, we were going through an industrial revolution at that time. Oil was now, you know, had replaced really steam and coal as sort of the main energy source, and so it was there was a very definite technical technological revolution going on, just as there is today with artificial intelligence. I mean, we're seeing something that is going to literally change the world. People don't exactly know how, and you know we're in the early innings of that, but there's no doubt that it's going to change the way people live.
Chris Stevenson 39:51
All right, so we're going to come to 1976 Give us the temperature reading in 76
Todd Bennett 39:58
Yeah, 76 This chapter that was an interesting chapter to write, too. I think again rhymes in so many ways was today, and here's, here's the main rhyme in my mind is a time when many Americans felt that the country's best days were behind it, maybe for reasons different than today, but then the main issues were one very divisive foreign war in Vietnam, two a serious constitutional crisis in Watergate, and three, here's maybe sometimes what gets overlooked, the worst economic crisis the United States had experienced, which there had been a period of long prosperity following World War Two that really came to an abrupt end to the end of the 1960s and start of the 70s for a variety of reasons, but a really severe economic crisis that manifested in high unemployment, the highest since the Great Depression, and really high inflation, so high cost, high cost of living spikes, and unemployment grows as well. So, there were really doubts about the country's future at that time, and yet the bicentennial kind of comes in there and arguably gives people something to kind of rally around.
David McKean 41:20
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. You know, it's.. I think the country was searching at that time in many, many ways, and you know, one of the things that's interesting is, and you sort of talked about this, Chris, in a way, that everybody was sort of taking advantage of this moment that all the advertisers were including the 7017 76 in their advertisements, and there really was sort of a patriotic spirit out there, and I think patriotic spirit in a very positive way, actually, that it was again sort of celebrating the possibilities for America in the future, not necessarily where we'd been in the past, but, but looking forward to, you know, to the to the next 50 years with, with a lot of hope, and it didn't last for long, to be honest, but it was at least a brief respite from what Todd has talked about, and it was a time for people to celebrate, and to actually get along with one another pretty well. And there were.. it was not centrally located, the celebrations. There was obviously a huge celebration in Washington, D.C. but equally in all the cities across this country, and in all the towns and villages as well. So I think I think we'll sort of look back on that as, as a time when Gerald Ford was president, and he talked about it as a sort of a period of healing.
Todd Bennett 42:52
Yeah, as you were talking, I think two other quick points, one about your, that wasn't centralized, this was one thing that separated the bicentennial from previous jubilees, is there wasn't a central world's fair type thing that was kind of an old idea, and nobody really did that anymore, but it was there was a conscious decision for a variety of reasons to kind of decentralize it, which was interesting, and also it was a, it was a kind of commemoration that I think Americans in 2026 would be comfortable with, because it was less kind of celebratory, and it was more, more of a three dimensional kind of approach to commemorating 200 years of American history, or what I mean by that is, what is what had changed since 1926 was, well, I don't know, the civil rights movement, the women's movement, and all these things, and so there was a greater recognition by 1976 that America's history, as much progress has been, has been made that that it wasn't a perfect journey towards freedom for everyone, and so a more, a more circumspect approach, and just lastly, as David said, Gerald Ford, a moderate Republican who was only president in 1976 because of Watergate, had never won election to that office in his own right, but was running for election as president in 1976 and definitely saw the political advantages in Dubai that the Bicentennial would offer. He could essentially kind of chair the nation's celebratory float, so to speak, but at the same time, and this is the key takeaway, he largely put the nation's interests over his own personal political interests, and as David said, saw the bicentennial as an important moment of healing that might, for a brief time, bring the nation together after. This very divisive period that may mark it as something different from 2026
Chris Stevenson 45:08
I guess. The question is, as we check in now, I mean, and you guys have touched on it, you know, with the rhyming, how crazy are things now as opposed to the past? And, of course, the big question is going back to that to that library patron, how are we doing today, or even over the past 50 years, in regards to the spirit of that birth certificate?
Todd Bennett 45:34
I think we can talk about this. Lots of ways to answer that question. I'll start. Is you know, let's july 4 has always been political. Always people, politicians have always made speeches on July 4 and have used july 4 to their political advantage. July 4 itself declaring independence was a political act, but since that time July 4 celebrations have generally been seen as moments to bring the country back together as moments of unity, however brief and momentary they may be, versus moments of division. I think the best example, I think I don't know that that's the case in 2026 I feel like people have are divided about whether what is there to celebrate, right? How do.. how do I celebrate? How do I mark this occasion? And I think the maybe the closest analog, I think, because I think the president is.. I think there's pretty without doubt, kind of sees Independence Day this year as a moment to improve his personal and political brand to politicize it to some extent, and I think the closest analog in recent memory was Richard Nixon, 50 years ago, who was supposed to have been president in 1976 and when he came to office in 1969 he fired the Bicentennial Planning Commission, which was a bipartisan mix of Democrats and Republicans and nonpartisan experts, and replaced them with contributors to his presidential campaign, and there was a director of that commission that talked in a confidential memo about using the bicentennial to further Nixon's and the Republican party's political purposes rather than to kind of unify the country, but that memo was leaked to the Washington Post, which published it as part of a kind of an expose in 1972 and that led to the scrapping of that Bicentennial Commission and its replacement with a new one that we mentioned earlier saw depoliticized the Bicentennial to try to appeal to all Americans, to kind of appeal to what we have in common, that's the closest analog to today, where the one attempt in recent memory to turn it into a partisan affair was rejected.
David McKean 48:32
So, I would, I think everything that Todd said is correct. I would, I would take a slightly different approach, and look at sort of the, you know, look at it as a time period, the last 50 years, and you know, as we've said before, we often take sort of two steps forward and one step back, or one step forward and two steps back, but there's no doubt that we've made a lot of progress in terms of the aspirational aspect of the Declaration of Independence in the last 50 years, you know, if you think about, you think about Congress, you know, there are now 60 African Americans represent who represent their districts in, in the Congress, you know, women have made huge strides in terms of equal pay, is not, not, not there yet, but they're much more prevalent in all aspects of the economy now. Asian Americans, you know, they're I think of the 10 largest companies in the United States. The CEOs of four of them are either Asian or South Asian. Hispanic population has grown from 4% to 20% and now they are a vital part of our economy and our culture. So, in so many ways, the diversity of this country has been, I think, improved and has improved our country and improved our economy and our and our politics. Six, now we wrote this book, we had to get the, we had to submit it to the publisher very early this year, and you know, I, as I was talking to Todd yesterday about this, somebody's going to do a terrific book, just about 2026 because it is a, it's a very interesting year, and you know, if you sort of think about it, there's an awful lot that's happened, so the Voting Rights Act, which was so critical to the advancement of black Americans, has really been rolled back by the Supreme Court, you know, it's the idea of sort of diversity in all aspects, has become all aspects of our lives, whether it's the government or private sector, is something that's been strongly de-emphasized now this year. So, it's, you know, it remains for sort of future historians to decide exactly what 2026 represents, but it's definitely a demarcation,
Todd Bennett 51:06
You know. And I would just add to that, I think it's well said. I think it's safe to say that in 2026 say in 2076 when historians go back and write the book on 2026 right, probably maybe the first words in that book will be 2026 found America at a crossroads. I think that's fair to say. That's, I think that's a bipartisan statement. I think Republicans and Democrats alike are concerned about where we are in 2026 and concerned about our future, maybe for different reasons, but I think concern is generally something we can probably all agree as historic as Americans, but you know, I think, as the book shows, America's been at crossroads before 1876 in many ways, 1926 1976 all examples of that, and so I guess I hope that the message that readers take from this is precisely that hope we've been at crossroads before for different reasons, and we'll have some again, but the nation has persevered, and what has got us there? I would argue are those civic values that we hold in common: human equality, unalienable rights, government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Those were the values laid down in 1776 not certainly not realized then, and not fully realized now, but that's the aspiration that has carried us through 250 years, and hopefully some more.
Chris Stevenson 52:51
There's actually one other last question. I'll open this up to you, but I want to give you both the opportunity to say this, because I let every person that I've interviewed do this, and you know what's coming. You have access to the airwaves. What would you like to tell the world? I
David McKean 53:05
would repeat what I said earlier. Yeah, hope. Yeah, I mean, one of the things we, you know, this book, we've tried not to make it political, we've tried not to make it a polemic, we've tried not to sort of preach to people, but the one thing we, that I think we felt was important, and we say it really on the last page, is that we hope we hope that the American people will engage in greater civility towards one another. I think we believe firmly that, you know, democracy and is only as good as the people who support it, so we hope there's greater civic participation, and you know, I think the rule of law is something that has been so critical to our to our success. The Declaration of Independence was an aspirational document. The Constitution was a legal document, and the Constitution has carried us through for decades, and we hope that the rule of law perseveres. Yeah,
Todd Bennett 54:16
And I would hope in 2076 and 50 years I won't be here, but we will have become a more perfect union in 2076
Chris Stevenson 54:26
All right, thanks, gentlemen.
Olubunmi Bakare 54:35
This has been another episode of the DC Public Library Podcast. Discover everything the library has to offer@dclibrary.org Stay connected with us online. Find us at DCPL on x at dc publiclibrary dot bsky dot social on blue sky, and at dc public library on instagram. Thanks. Tuning in, and we'll catch you next time. Bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai