Center for Accessibility Librarian Jenny meets with members of the Lives A Part project, which is collecting the experiences of former residents of Forest Haven, a live-in facility for adults with intellectual disabilities run by the District until its closure in 1991. She is joined by contributors Ricardo and Donna Thornton, Noah Beaufford and Elijah Lee of SchoolTalk DC, and citizen historian and project advisor Bob Williams.
Click here for a transcript of this episode.
This is a transcript of the DC Public Library Podcast
https://dcplpodcast.simplecast.com/episodes/all-things-local-schooltalk-dc
Released December 15, 2020 (Running time 33:02)
All Things Local: SchoolTalk DC
Center for Accessibility Librarian Jenny meets with members of the Lives A Part project, which is collecting the experiences of former residents of Forest Haven, a live-in facility for adults with intellectual disabilities run by the District until its closure in 1991. She is joined by contributors Ricardo and Donna Thornton, Noah Beaufford and Elijah Lee of SchoolTalk DC, and citizen historian and project advisor Bob Williams.
[Speaker#1: DC Public Library Podcast is made possible in part by the Institute of Museum & Library Services and is a production of the Labs at DC Public Library]
[Jenny]: You're listening to the DC Public Library Podcast recorded from the Labs Recording Studio in the historic, modernized, Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library in downtown Washington, DC. This is All Things Local. Hello, I'm your host, Jenny, a Librarian with the Center for Accessibility at DC Public Library.
Today we’re discussing the Lives A Part project, which is collecting the experiences of those who lived at Forest Haven, a live-in facility in Laurel, MD that was run by the District from the 1920s until its closure in 1991.
So let’s get started with some introductions to the project, and uh our wonderful, uh panelists who are going to be joining us today.
So, the goal of the “From Lives Apart to Lives Together” Project is to record the stories and experiences of former Forest Haven Residents about what life was like before and during their time at Forest Haven, what life is like today, and what their hopes and concerns are for the future.
Project ACTION! in collaboration with Quality Trust, the DC DD Council, DC Department on Disability Services and SchoolTalk's DC Youth Leadership Network have partnered on this project to document the oral histories of former Forest Haven residents.
Project ACTION!, DC’s self-advocacy organization, is taking the lead on this initiative. Project ACTION! is partnering with SchoolTalk’s DC Youth Leadership Network, a group of DC youth advocates. The DCYLN is conducting interviews, capturing videos, and helping to edit the stories.
And today we’re gonna be joined virtually by:
Donna & Ricardo Thornton, who are self-advocates who lived at Forest Haven. They are currently members of Project ACTION!, DC’s self-advocacy organization that’s taking the lead on this initiative. They will share their stories of having lived lives apart from each other, lives apart from everyone else, and the importance of living lives as a part of our community today.
We also have Noah Beaufford, a graduate of Eastern High School in DC, a member of the DC Youth Leadership Network, and a Program Assistant at SchoolTalk. He will share about his role as the interviewer on the project.
We also have Elijah Lee joining us, a graduate of Anacostia High School in DC, a former member of the DC Youth Leadership Network, and a Program Assistant at SchoolTalk. He will share his role as the videographer for this project. Both Noah and Elijah will share why they think the generation of youth with disabilities need to hear the stories of Forest Haven residents.
And finally, we will have Bob Williams, a pioneer disability leader and visionary. He is the citizen historian and adviser on this project. And today he will help weave the past with the future and will share his vision for moving this project forward.
So, first I want to thank you all, uh for joining us on the podcast today. We’re so thrilled to have you. And I want to turn it over to Noah, who is going to give us a brief history of Forest Haven.
[Noah]: Thank you!
Forest Haven was an institution created for people with intellectual disabilities, then known as mental retardation. It was where people from the District of Columbia were sent from the 1920s to the 1970s to live lives “APART” and separate from the community. In the late 1970s, there was a constitutional class action lawsuit brought against DC regarding the abuse, neglect, and death of individuals living at Forest Haven. An agreement was made in 1978 to close Forest Haven and relocate residents. Forest Haven officially closed its doors in 1991. To this day, nearly 400 individuals are buried at Forest Haven in a mass grave.
Thousands of words have been said and written by families, advocates, the news media, Congress, the court, federal agencies, attorneys and others on Forest Haven and what it meant to live there. Little has been done, however, to record the experiences from the perspectives of those who actually lived at Forest Haven.
Today, there are about 400 former residents of Forest Haven still living. The time, opportunity and obligation to listen, learn from and do justice by these individuals is now.
This project includes the voices of individuals who lived at Forest Haven and what it meant to live there. It also highlights their journeys to live lives together and included in the community today.
[Jenny]: Thank you so much, Noah, uh for that history of Forest Haven, which leads us to our next guests, uh Ricardo and Donna Thornton.
Hi Ricardo and Donna, thank you so much for being with us today!
[Ricardo]: Well thank you, thank you!
[Jenny]: It’s nice to meet you both.
[Ricardo]: Yes, this is my spicy Donna! No I’m just kidding (Ricardo and Jenny laugh)
[Jenny]: Uh well we wanted to have you on the show cause you were part of this project and that is the component of the people being interviewed for the project, telling their own stories, in their own words, documenting this important history- can you tell us a little bit about um your experience with living at Forest Haven and why you wanted to record your stories as part of this project?
[Ricardo]: Sure! Well um, like I said I’m a former resident of Forest Haven and I went-
[Donna]: We.
[Ricardo]: Yeah, we-
[Donna]: We.
[Ricardo]: We are former residents of Forest Haven. And uh I went in Forest Haven in 1966 and I was very young. Um I went to one of the Cottages where I lived, where they're all males- they had one cottage for males and one for females, right honey?
[Donna]: Mm hmm.
[Ricardo]: I just wanna make sure I’m correct. And um we had to do- we didn't have choices then, we have to follow rules and regulations there were on the ground. So there were no choices. Um, I had to I had to, I worked at a store, I worked at McDonald’s where I met my wonderful-
[Donna]: We.
[Ricardo]: We worked at McDonald’s, where I met my wonderful wife-
[Donna]: Mm hmm. Girlfriend.
[Ricardo]: My wonderful friend. And uh she was wonderful, she was spicy but she was nice. And I...we had some good days and we had some bad days, there were some dark days at Forest Haven. I had a sister who lived at Forest Haven, her name was Irlene. And Irlene lived in one of the cottages but what saddened me was I had a um, a brother also that lived at Forest Haven. And the connection that we had was disconnected. So we had to really find ways of getting to connect, with family who would come out and visit them but they didn't know who I was, so later when I was able to- the more, the more they saw me the more I got more involved with who my family was, my roots.
Um I lost my sister at a institution. And uh it was a sad day but then I said I would advocate for change. There was no loss investigation. It just said that she had a heart attack and that was it, but she was really overdosed but that was something that we could not prove, so. That was just one doctor, but there were quite a few doctors. When I say doctor, there were days that we just wish they would go away and hope that we have a better day.
But the good news is that we were out living in the community. Right honey? You go ahead, honey. Go ahead.
[Donna]: Yes, I was um, I was the first one that got out in the community, worked at McDonald’s. Um, they tried me out, McDonald’s. I liked the McDonald’s. I liked the community. Um I liked it cause I was out in the open. And uh when I got out, I liked it. I liked to do out in community.
But when I got out, it was nice. But sometimes I feel like you know, um, I wonder...it was, it was rough. It was nice, it was nice.
[Ricardo]: And I would come and visit, she had her own place, beautiful apartment. And I was the super man.
[Donna]: Yep, I had my own place. I had my own place, I had my own money. I led my own life-
[Ricardo]: Now you didn’t have to say that- she said she had her own money, did you hear that?
[Donna]: I had my own money, I could spend it the way I want to spend it. You know?
[Ricardo]: And what I was doing was I used to work at, I work at the library, at the Martin Luther King Library. And what I would do is there were weekends I would go and spend the weekend with her.
[Donna]: Yes, spend the weekend with me.
[Ricardo]: And one weekend became a proposal, she proposed to me.
[Jenny]: Aww.
[Donna]: Yes, I proposed to him. I didn’t supposed to but I did it anyway.
[Ricardo]: She proposed and I told her I’ll get married until I’m about 65-years-old, she said (Jenny laughs) by that time nobody gonna want my ass, so. But we won’t use that word.
[Jenny]: (laughs) It’s okay.
[Ricardo]: But we had a, we had a beautiful wedding.
[Donna]: Yeah.
[Ricardo]: We had to go to our social workers and tell them about our idea of getting married and, uh that was like, what was that idea honey?
[Donna]: Now they didn’t...and I asked them why. And then they said, “well, you know, didn’t you like the way you was?” And I said, “Yes,” and I said, “Don’t you- we want what you have. And they said, “What’s that?”
I said, “Don’t you have a, a car, don’t you have a ring on your fingers? Don’t you have a house?” I said, “This is what we want, we want our freedom. We want what you have. So can we have what you want? What you have in the life? So this is what we want.”
[Ricardo]: And then we got a lot of negative stuff about people with disabilities, the “R” word and what we can’t do.
[Donna]: Yeah. Yeah.
[Ricardo]: And we had to show what we can do. And one of the things we did was-
[Donna]: What we can do.
[Ricardo]: We invited them all to come and join us to a wedding.
[Donna]: Right.
[Ricardo]: A handicapped wedding. We invited everyone that had negative things to say about disability to come see this wedding.
[Donna]: Yes.
[Ricardo]: This wedding had the people with disabilities, uh without disabilities, and it was a beautiful wedding.
[Donna]: Yes.
[Ricardo]: Wasn’t it, honey?
[Donna]: Yes.
[Ricardo]: And then right after that wedding we wound up, um meeting um...Washington Post did a piece. We wound up being-
[Donna]: Paul...Paul, and Mike Wallace.
[Ricardo]: Mike, we met Mike Wallace. Yeah.
[Donna]: Yes.
[Ricardo]: So Mike Wallace came and did an interview and wanted to know what was the reason, why is it that we wanted to leave this institution. Why? Why?
[Donna]: Why?
[Ricardo]: And uh, we told him, we expressed ourselves in a way and let him know. But then something else happened.
[Donna]: Yes.
[Ricardo]: Um, my wife wind up getting pregnant.
[Donna]: Yes, I got pregnant.
[Ricardo]: Yeah!
[Donna]: Before, before then. I told Shirley, I didn’t know, but I knew and somebody at my job asked me, “Donna, why are you eating pickles?” (Jenny laughs)
And I said, “Yeah, I like pickles.” She said, “You know that’s a sign of getting pregnant.” So I said, “Huh?” So I ended up going to the doctor’s and they told me I was pregnant. And I said, “Oh my god,” I had to go back and tell my husband I was pregnant.
[Ricardo]: And we was excited about the news and uh, right after we heard that there was a time where- my son just celebrated his birthday December the 4th.
[Donna]: Yes.
[Ricardo]: He was a 2 pound, 11 ounce baby boy.
[Donna]: Yes.
[Ricardo]: And uh, I remember my wife asking the doctor, “Doctor, does he have all his hands-”
[Donna]: And his fingers, and his thumbs and well, fingers and his little feet, you know little, what do you call it?
[Ricardo]: Mm hmm, his little feet.
[Donna]: Feet, feet. Yeah, little feets.
[Ricardo]: And the doctor said, “Yes,” and the question that I leave for people to uh, really take a look at in that is when she asked the doctor, “Doctor, will my baby love me?”
And the doctor said, “Yes, your baby-”
“No doctor, will my baby love me?” Think about it, we’re just getting out of an institution, we’re overcoming a lot of obstacles in our lives. And now we have this beautiful 2 pound, 11 ounce baby boy. And the question was, “Will he really love me?”
So today to tell you he is wonderful, he loves his mom, and Mom you wanna tell them what he’s doing now?
[Donna]: He is, he is working now. He’s working now at the government building. One of the government buildings, he’s a security guard. He got, he got two little beautiful girls. He got a beautiful uh, big boy named Daniel. Daniel, Daniel uh, Thornton. Um, he is now, he is in school, he’s involved in Special Olympics. He’s involved in um, in school, he’s doing very good. I think this is the last year or next year he’ll be graduating at high school. High school or something? I think in high school.
And we got two little girls, uh Leah and Maria. They go to school. Their ages are 5 and 6-years-old. They go to school and they’re doing very, very good in school. And I hope they continue on doing good. And then, um, Daniel, I hope that he makes it to graduate in school, out of school and graduate, continue to do that.
And then, you know, to make me good, make a grandparents good ([Ricardo]: Make you proud, proud), you know proud of us, you know.
[Ricardo]: The odds were always against us when Ricky went to school ([Donna]: Yes). They didn’t think that because of our disability that we’d be able to raise him and to get him into school and we had- what they didn’t know was we had a support system. Where we had people that would support us and help us in making sure he gets through this school and that we were just like the background, encouraging him. And the more we encouraged him the better he became successful.
[Donna]: Yeah.
[Ricardo]: So he graduated from Calvin Coolidge ([Donna]: Yes) and um, he was on his way to college. Uh but he decided that we wanted to work a little more and take career courses, so. That’s the good news on that side.
[Donna]: Yeah.
[Ricardo]: I love advocacy and I promised my sister I would do advocacy work. I serve as the co-chair of Project ACTION! Self-advocacy, which is an advocacy group for change. And that’s our story!
[Jenny]: That’s your story, it sounds like you have a wonderful family and I can tell how proud you are of your, your son and your grandchildren and it’s really wonderful that you’re, know, leading by example by doing this advocacy work. Um, showing others about the importance of telling their own stories. What- what was it like you know, um being interviewed for this project and, and making sure that your experience was recorded? Was that a positive thing for you?
[Ricardo]: It was a good thing, when I heard when we were at a Project ACTION! Meeting, and I know Bob had mentioned, uh about a project that he was putting together and it was storytelling, those that would like to tell their stories, you know about their past, um success stories. And I thought that was a very good idea. And I thought it would be very helpful and educating to others to hear our stories and to, not only hear our stories but others would be able to tell their stories, cause there are a lot of beautiful success stories.
[Donna]: Mm hmm.
[Ricardo]: That you’d be amazed to hear, that we overcame.
[Donna]: Yes.
[Ricardo]: So I think this project is very good, I hope that they keep funding this project so you can get more stories, cause we’ve got lots of stories out there that have not been told, so.
[Jenny]: Wow, that’s wonderful. Thank you both so much for spending some time with us today too to hear more of your story. Um, leading into our, the next part of our podcast, um we wanted to talk to some of our youth who’ve been doing the ([Ricardo]: Yay!) actual collecting of these stories, who you two- you know very well I’m sure by now. Um, we’re so, we’re so thrilled to have youth involved, this is a very intergenerational project, a very uh DC-centric project. Um, so we’re excited to have Noah and Elijah, who have been working with SchoolTalk, um doing the interviews.
So Noah, first can you tell us a little bit about your role as an interview for the Lives A Part project, an interviewer?
[Noah]: Yeah, so my role um basically is just to interview former Forest Haven residents. Um, and it’s quite simple but first I always like to get to know um, the people at Forest Haven who I’m interviewing just to get a feeling. Then once I do inter- I didn’t get a chance to interview Ricardo and Donna but the others, I like to put myself in a position, once like, once I’m asking questions like, put myself as if I was in the same position they are in. And um, I like to keep it, you know, nice and simple for them, so it’s quite simple for me.
[Jenny]: Had you ever worked on a project before, Noah?
[Noah]: Uh no, so this project was like my first project and like, I think this will probably be like the best project I’ve ever done like, I really enjoy interviewing different, um Forest Haven residents.
[Jenny]: Mm hmm. Was there anything that like, surprised you about, um the interviewing process, like either from the stories people were telling, or you know, what it was like to go through the interview?
[Noah]: Um...I would say, I would say it’s very- I can get, I can get emotional like, after the call, like it’s very, it’s like it’s a lot to take in when you interview these former Forest Haven residents because their stories are very deep. You know, you learn a lot, you know um. Like in high school and stuff like that we were never taught about Forest Haven, so you know I’m just learning in a short, in a short span about like what Forest Haven was, how they was treated and stuff like that. So it’s like, it’s a lot I’m taking in, um and it’s very deep.
[Jenny]: Definitely. Yeah, I’m sure it’s, a lot of the stories are very emotional. Um, and Elijah, you’ve been working as the videographer for this project with SchoolTalk. Um can you share a little bit about your role as videographer?
[Elijah]: Um yeah, my role as videographer is um, like kinda like Noah said it’s been like uh, pretty easy and everything but it's also been a little difficult, it’s like a different type of editing, a different type of recording. Um, usually I’m there setting up lights and stuff like that, recording in a, in a space, but now we’re kinda recording on Zoom during the pandemic. So it’s kind of hard to uh, kinda get everything exactly perfect how you would want. So that is um, a challenge within itself but it’s been a fun- it’s been a good challenge, I loved it. Um, I like being on the other side watching people and setting people up so they can look good in the cameras and listening to their stories like Noah said. A lot of good stories, a lot of um, a lot of serious uh stuff that’s been said and everything, so I can’t wait to finally put it all together at the end and we all can watch it, you know what I mean, so we all can sit there and enjoy. But it has been like a lot of good stuff going though.
[Jenny]: Yeah, that’s exciting. Now, do you find um, being the videographer and being like, responsible for the visual portion of this, do you have like a favorite, uh thing to do? Like do you like to be behind the camera, do you like to be working on the lighting like you said? Um, do you have like a, a piece of technology that you like the most? From a technical standpoint?
[Elijah]: Um, for me, uh probably say the camera, I like using the camera the most, being behind the camera. Um, and I like the lighting too, just making sure everyone looks nice and stuff like that. Um, that’s pretty much like the best part, kinda like just uh, the making it, making sure everything looks perfect, the tedious part when it comes to editing that’s my favorite part, just setting it up and stuff, yeah. That’s what I look forward to the most and since it’s COVID, I’m kinda missing out on that little bit of fun, so.
[Jenny]: Yeah. Well it must be nice to still be able to connect with people during this time, like I know I was looking forward to connecting with all of you. We would have loved to do it in person at our studio but it’s great that we can still share these stories in the virtual world.
Um, and Noah and Elijah, I don’t know if you can speak to the importance of why this generation of youth advocates with disabilities hear the stories of former Forest Haven residents. Cause this is obviously pretty removed from your experience, so why do you feel like it’s important to have this like, intergenerational component to the project?
[Elijah]: I think it’s important to um, have this uh, just so students can know um what the opportunities they have now, what people back then people went through with the same disabilities or similar disabilities did not have these opportunities at all back then. So you definitely should take advantage of the things that they have worked for, and spoke for, and stood in line for now, cause without Ricardo and Donna speaking for many years, Bob Williams speaking for many years, and many others- without them and what they had went through at Forest Haven, a lot of the opportunities would not be in place now. So that’s one thing I think the students, especially students with disabilities, should take from this Forest Haven film, that um this was happening back then, people with disabilities came together and fought to get a change, so their kids that they wanted to have and other youth growing up- we wouldn’t have to go through that same thing or have to go to a special place like that and get dealt with. Or, not even get dealt with or mistreated. So that’s something that I expect the youth to take a part from this right here.
[Noah]: Yeah, I agree with Elijah. Um, it’s important because first and foremost the um- what they went through is very important to like, in history, period. Like that’s very important, that’s like top notch. Um, and also they should just learn from like, learn about their life, learn how, you know, learn about like, how can I say it? Um, just take away like how important it is to learn your history and like honor, honor the people before you. Like that’s like the main takeaway, for real. And just being aware of like, what’s going on at all times.
[Jenny]: Yeah, absolutely. So, uh next we’re gonna talk a little bit more about the project- how it started and where it’s going with, uh Bob Williams who is our citizen, or the citizen historian and advisor on the project. So, go ahead and take it away, Bob. Let us know um, where the project is going and where do you want to see it?
[Bob]: I have lived and worked in the District for my entire adult life. The voice I am using is that of my speech generating device. I will explain who I am and my connection to this project in a moment. But first I want to thank Donna and Ricardo for sharing your stories. For sharing the worst and best parts, of your life journeys. As well as encouraging others to share their own stories. You are revealing history that has been too easily lost and ignored.
It helps us to confront the never ending struggle for human and civil rights, basic human decency in our country. And amongst ourselves, there are two uses we can make of history. We can ignore it, and repeat its worst lessons as well as impacts. Or we can learn from it, and use what we learn to create a more just and better future for everyone. Today, we see the truth of this in the effects that the pandemic and police violence have on people and communities of color throughout the country. We must learn the same from the history of Forest Haven.
Here is why I am here today. My life story is quite different from Ricardo and Donna. I was born with cerebral palsy over 60 years ago. But unlike hundreds of thousands of infants, toddlers, and children with disabilities sent to places like Forest Haven, especially during the baby boom, I escaped institutionalization. I faced discrimination, prejudice, and bullying and those scars never heal. But because of my parents, brothers, and sisters, and my and many others’ hard work, I got a good education and other opportunities growing up and earned my B. A. at G. W. University.
I first saw the insides of an institution in the summer of 1979, when I volunteered with a legal aid lawyer suing to force the State of Connecticut to move people out of a warehouse called Mansfield Training School into their community, which was the very place my parents were told to put me and drive away. I flinched and wanted to run away as I entered the buildings. Yet, was drawn inside by the eyes of the people, lying on steel grey mats on the floor. I saw a mirrored image of what my life could have been.
Soon after, I met a couple of men living at Forest Haven and visited them there. Then I got to know people like Ricardo, Donna, and others who were working on creating better lives and futures for those leaving Forest Haven. After G. W, I worked as a court monitor overseeing conditions at Forest Haven, and helping people begin new lives in the community.
Ever since, I have spent a lot of time researching and writing about the place and most importantly, the lives of the over 3000 infants, children, teenagers, and adults, consigned to what was first known as the District Training School for the Feeble minded. This includes nearly 400 souls who are buried there in an abandoned cemetery, that the District refuses to acknowledge.
The history needs to be confronted, if we are to do greater justice by those exiled there, as well as to do greater justice for all generations to come.
We are currently producing a series of videoed oral histories of people that lived there and who can talk about their lives both then and today. We also are working to uncover, share, and learn from more of this history. 2025 will mark the 100th anniversary of when the first group of 14 boys and men, 7 of who were black and 7 white, and kept segregated by race, were sent to the institution to live. As well as to help build it and farm the land.
The institution was created to send those Congress and the city’s elite stamped “feeble minded,” to a place in then rural Laurel, Maryland, where they would not pose what was then purported to be a menace to society and a blight on the Nation’s Capital. Racism, ableism, eugenics, the Progressive Movement, and human arrogance all spurred it.
Its 100th year anniversary will not be a celebration but a time for remembrance, reconciliation, healing, and an active recommitment to do greater justice. By that spring, in addition to the video series, we are hoping to produce a history of those that lived there, obituaries honoring the memories of people buried there, and materials and tools that schools and others can use. We will use everything we do and learn to educate the public, the press, and policy makers, about why this history must inform what we do to expand true equality of opportunity for people with developmental and other significant disabilities now and in the future. We will also call on both the Congress and the DC Council to enact legislation that publicly apologizes for the part each played in creating and perpetuating the harm, discrimination, and far worse done at Forest Haven. And funds continuing historical research, restorative justice, education, and reconciliation activities.
[Jenny]: So I want to thank all of our guests today. Thank you to Ricardo and Donna, Elijah, Noah, and Bob. Uh, if you were a resident of Forest Haven and want to share your story as a part of the project, you can contact sarah.grime@schooltalkdc.org to get more information.
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