Jenny learns about the new DC Office for the Deaf, DeafBlind, and Hard of Hearing (ODBH) from activists Brianne Berger and Robb Dooling in honor of the International Week of the Deaf, taking place September 20-26, 2021.
Jenny C
You're listening to the DC Public Library Podcast recorded from the Labs Recording Studio in the historic modernized Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library in downtown Washington, DC. I'm Jenny and welcome to "Access This," our series on disability culture and community brought to you by the Center for Accessibility at DCPL.
Jenny C
This week, we're honoring the International Week of the Deaf, which takes place this year September 20th through 26th. It is celebrated annually by the global Deaf community during the last full week of September, to commemorate the same month that the First World Congress of the World Federation of the Deaf or WFD was held.
Jenny C
My guests today are Brianne Berger and Robb Dooling. Brianne Berger is a deaf resident of DC who has more than 20 years of experience in accessibility to education and employment for people with disabilities. Her in-depth knowledge of public policy with disabilities has led to her appointment on a number of boards and advisory groups at the national, state, and local levels. In her free time, Brianne does adventures with her kids and dogs.
Jenny C
Robb Dooling is Deaf, queer, and a DC Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner representing District 6A06, the eastern end of the H Street Northeast Corridor. He grew up in Nebraska, studied computer science at Rochester Institute of Technology in New York, and moved to DC in 2014. In his free time, Rob loves bike adventures to Harpers Ferry and beyond.
Jenny C
And today we're discussing the new DC office for Deaf, DeafBlind, and Hard of Hearing, or ODBH, which was funded in the DC Council's fiscal year 2022 budget. While ODBH was officially created by law last September, this is the first time it has received funding, which will begin October 1.
Jenny C
Well, I want to thank you both again, for being here today. Brianne and Robb, we're so pleased to have you on the podcast talking with us today. And you were both big advocates for this new office in DC. So congratulations on finally receiving funding. That's a, that's great news. I know it hasn't actually started up yet, but that was obviously an important step. Can you tell us a little bit more about the office and and what needs it will serve for the people of DC?
Brianne Burger
Um, do you want to start Robb, or me?
Robb Dooling
Yeah, sure, absolutely. So here, at the DC office for the Deaf and DeafBlind and also Hard of hearing, we are very proud that this is the first state level office that will have a DeafBlind, officially in its name. So it really emphasizes the diversity for the community that we serve here. It'll also focus on making sure that there, um all DC...So all DC government services, that they would all be accessible and that we can work with the DC government agencies as well to develop accessibility and also to improve the deaf education in DC. That is one of the things that we are most excited about in this because there are so many families in the DC area, specifically east of the river, that they had no idea that Gallaudet even existed, like at all, they had no idea about all of that. The, and also MSSD, Model Secondary School for the Deaf, also has resources as well. And I do you know that Brianne would like to maybe add some additional comments here.
Brianne Burger
Yeah, so really though, let's back up a bit. I moved here in 2004. And I've always lived in states that, oh, I already always lived in state level, where states offered community services for the Deaf. And made sure you know that they had government services in that state that they were always accessible for the Deaf, deaf and blind, Hard of hearing, that community. So I'm already used to that growing up. I moved to DC and I started working and I was a student at Gallaudet University. But I lived off of campus in DC. So I kind of became you know, a DC resident because I lived off of campus and you know, I'm going to work and I'm studying at the Gallaudet University. So we had some issues.
[INTERPRETER 1: Sorry, tenant?]
Brianne Burger
We had some tenant issues. Um, some questions. So someone referred me to the TRO- Tenant Rights Office and for the DC government, and I contacted them and asked questions about the lease. "Oh, you're deaf?" And I said, "Yes, I'm deaf." "Oh, you have to ask Gallaudet University." And I was shocked, like, why do I need to ask Gallaudet University? I work there and I study there. But you know, they're not DC government, they're not in place of DC government. You know, that's, that's not their purpose. You know, with the living situation, that's, that's your expertise.
Brianne Burger
Um, so those were, like some of the issues that I've been struggling with as a DC resident over the upcoming years. I'm currently a parent of two children in DC Public Schools. So you know, I have really have to communicate with DC Public Schools, I have to have access with them to meetings, school events, things like that, and I have to speak to DC government, um, you know, we have to have access to interpreters, have access for caption. So very often, it just seems very segregated and confused. Um, it's, it's not clear the- no point of contact, who to reach, it's just not accessible. Often, the DC government has press conferences, or you know, videos, and they don't have captioning, or they don't have an interpreter. So I just find that very odd. Because here in Washington, DC, we are one of the largest deaf and hard of hearing communities in all of, in the US, in the DC area. So it feels very strange that the DC government is kind of like, overlooking us. You know, we are taxpayer residents too. We live here too, we work here too, we play here too. And they don't really seem to really recognize us and give us equal rights and access. So not only DC residents are considered second class, because of no, you know, representation, you know, loss of that representation. But I feel that deaf people are like third class, you know, like, right, we're stooped even lower, because we're paying taxes, but we don't show any representation. We're not getting access, because we're deaf. So these are a lot of the reasons why, you know, I decided to approach DC back in 2016, right, Robb? I think it was 2016? 2013?
Robb Dooling
2014.
Brianne Burger
I've lost track over the years, it's been so long, and we've been fighting but so we met with them...the mayor, mayor and we asked for a meeting with them. And I brought representation from the National Deaf Association. And they came with me from NAD and we all met with them with the deputy mayor. Long time ago, they don't have a deputy mayor now but at the time. And some staff, we had them....oh, they had organized disability rights, Office of Disability Rights, ODR is the Office of Disability Rights. So we had this big conference and we were talking about ideas and how to establish a state office with services for the Deaf and deaf and hard of hearing and so forth. Because 36 states already have that. And I did emphasize, you know that this is one step in the right direction.
[INTERPRETER 1: State, state...hood oh statehood]
Brianne Burger
Oh, this is like statehood oh because DC is not a state. So I said you know, if you want to have more reinforcement structured to become a state, this you know, you should have an organization for the Deaf just like all the other 36 states.
Brianne Burger
So the mayor asked me to write a proposal. So I wrote one down, explained in detail um about the number of people that were Deaf, deaf and hard of hearing in DC, education-wise, work, oh so many different things that we needed more focus on. Um and what other states have and comparable, their laws and what they have in states and different levels. So we sent a proposal. It took a few months later and they asked me some questions. And they asked me to write in more depth, more information. So I wrote a second proposal with more information. I sent that off. Waiting, waiting, going back and forth, back and forth, calling. Finally they said, No, we're not interested in setting up an organization. We are interested in, you know, increasing the number of representation volunteers, for deaf people, on different council boards, committee boards, things like that for DC government around those, but those are only volunteer positions. They have nothing to do with making government services more accessible. And most of the time, counsel will recommend- make a recommendation.
[INTERPRETER 2: It doesn't mean they'll implement them.]
Brianne Burger
Yes, it doesn't mean they'll implement. So I feel okay, you know, I can get volunteers but that will not help with making the DC government services more accessible to deaf people. So later we met up and Robb became an advisor for-
Robb Dooling
Hold on, this is Robb, hold on a second. Advisory the word, um neighborhood, so the Neighborhood Advisory Commissioner. So that's ANC is the acronym for it. Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner.
[INTERPRETER 1: Thank you. Thank you for clarifying]
Brianne Burger
Yes. And he was trying to run for that office with another deaf man from a different agency. So it was two deaf men running that in DC. We're thrilled, we were very excited about that. But they were struggling to get interpreters, closed captioning, different things to have accessibility for meetings. And the advisory- they did not have access for deaf people. For example, in my neighborhood, NOMA.
[INTERPRETER 1: That's your, your neighborhood? NOMA]
Brianne Burger
Okay, yeah, my neighborhood was called NOMA. Okay. But I moved, but before was class six
[INTERPRETER 2: Ward 6.]
[INTERPRETER 1: Oh Ward 6, I'm sorry.]
Brianne Burger
ULine, U-L-I-N-E. ULine Arena. I used to live right across from ULine Arena. Back then, when it was a really, do you remember before? They had taxis, taxis everywhere. Oh, it was nothing there. They had taxis and different things like just parking, there was an old abandoned building, there was nothing there. And the city wanted to redevelop and have it become stores and restaurants across from that ULine and NOMA. And that's right across from there. And I used to live right across from there. And I would take meet- go to meetings and events about the planning of that building. And I couldn't go to any of them. Because I had no idea what was happening, what was happening in my own community because those meetings were not accessible. So I had to go get my neighbors to go and then come back and let me know what was going on.
[INTERPRETER: A-N-C? What's that, ANC? Oh.]
Brianne Burger
The Advisory Neighborhood Committee- Commissioner, ANC. So that's all I know today, still they're not accessible, unfortunately still after all this time. So anyway, Robb, and another gentleman wanted to run that and they found out that the city...allocation, allocated money, a budget of $15,000 for interpreters and closed captioning for those meetings, for the Advisory Commissioner meetings. But nobody knows how to get that money. Nobody knew how to get that, who was in charge, who's supposed to send money, not, none of that. So $15,000 is just sitting there and no instructions on how to get it to use it or who was responsible to get the money to pay for interpreters or have closed captioning. So obviously, it's a huge commiss- communication barrier in the city. People are just like clueless to resources and how to get them.
Brianne Burger
So Robb and I had this great idea to go to Council, DC Council. And have a bill that we proposed in office that we got together with Sean...Mawin?
[INTERPRETER 1: No, I don't see sorry.]
[INTERPRETER 2: Meiwald, Sean Meiwald.]
[INTERPRETER 1: Meiwald. Okay. Thank you. Meiwald, Sean Meiwald.]
Brianne Burger
Yes, him. And he was deaf himself, working for the DC Councilman himself, he was a member. He was working for him as an intern. But he was not able to go to the meetings and join the, and participate because DC Council did not have funding, or they didn't know how to get an interpreter. So he missed a lot of experience and opportunities with his internship. So he also wanted to support the idea of a bill, you know, to set to establish an organization for Deaf and Deaf and Hard of Hearing, Blind. So he helped us write a bill. We used a lot of the same linguistics and language in the bill from other states and their laws, very similar, we took a lot from that. But we changed the dialogue, you know, to fit in DC. When we went and we met, and we met with everyone in the DC Council. Thirteen Councilmen, we met with everybody hoping that they will support us. And of course, we must say thank you to Charles Allen. Charles Allen.
[INTERPRETER 1: He...controlled? Oh.]
Brianne Burger
He's the Councilman for Ward Six. Councilman for Ward Six. So he really wow, he just was like our champion and our huge support from the beginning. He sponsored the bill. He was really like going to other people like hey, please support this. Um, so he had maybe about eight to nine council members come and support the bill. And then we went to other people and just discussing and went through the whole process. And the first hearing we had...trying to recruit many, many Deaf and Hard of Hearing organizations in the DC area. The Hearing Loss Agency of America, their DC chapter. Latino, Latino and Deaf, Latino Hard of Hearing, DC Black and Deaf advocacy, Black and Deaf advocates, different organizations everywhere. We're trying to recruit everyone to come to the hearing. So we testified, trying to support the bill. The DC government had, they had a witness at the end of every court hearing, is the customary practice for DC government to send their witness to testify whether they support or they are opposed.
Brianne Burger
So the DC Mayor sent his witness and the witness opposed. He felt that the organization of Disability Rights is already there, that they can do it. That this is like a duplication of effort. So we met with them to try to get some more information, and we meet with the DC Council, and a lot of them disagreed with them. If this is like a duplication, then why is the organization on Disability Rights not making DC government having things accessible for the deaf? So DC Council disagreed with them and said, No, we do need this office, we do need this organization. So they passed it.
[INTERPRETER 1: I'm sorry, they passed with the first vote?]
Brianne Burger
They passed with the first vote on this bill. And then the second vote, they passed it unanimously. There was no there was no, no one was opposed to it, all 13 supported it, supported both votes. So we gave it to the DC Mayor for a signature. And then the DC Mayor was taking a while to sign and then he finally signed it on the last day, it was really like taking a while. And in DC, Congress is part of the legislative pro- legislation process. And all, all DC legislation has to review it through Congress for 30 days. So it went to Congress, and it passed and it became official, official law as of December 20, 2020. Yeah, I'm so excited! It was a great Christmas gift [JENNY laughs].
Brianne Burger
The fight is not over. Because then we have to win for the funding, get the funding, we have to get the funding for establishing this office, this organization. So that's what Robb and I have been working and working and working a lot on this summer. We have been very, very busy this summer, just really trying to you know, nag DC government and someone higher up, Jenny...
Brianne Burger
[INTERPRETER 1: Jenny Read, read, Jenny Reed, I'm sorry.]
Brianne Burger
Jenny Reed. And she's the budget officer. So we try to just have a meeting with her office. And we really hope that the DC Mayor will go ahead and find this organization so we can start and establish it and started this October, for the school year 2022. I'm sorry, for the fiscal year, fiscal year 2022. So that's been a struggle. They did not approve the funding. So we had to go to DC Council and go back and forth with them. And they eventually will approve the funding. So we're very, very excited that now the funding is in for the fiscal year 2022. So we're really looking forward to that with the office in the fall.
Jenny C
Yeah that's, it's very exciting. And and what a, what a process. It was seven years from the time you first introduced this office, and you know, the Deaf community with support of Counsel, obviously, but, you know, it was the advocates who made this happen. Which we often hear in, you know, disability rights stories, it's the advocates pushing and, and forcing the progress that should already be in place. So I'm really excited to see that and for more opportunities for the Deaf community to engage in, you know, their ANC meetings and in other things. Just to break down those barriers. What is, what is your hope for how this office could continue to grow over the years? Robb, would you like to comment?
Robb Dooling
Yeah, yeah, um the Office for the Deaf, DeafBlind, and Hard of Hearing. It is ODBH is the acronym. So our envisionment for ODBH, could make sign language a lot more universal in the DC area. You know, one thing in, you know, in the disability advocacy world, you know that we have motivation around helping people understand how accessibility actually benefits everybody, we see how captioning could actually be useful for many different groups of people. That includes people with learning who are learning lin- English, immigrants, senior citizens, people even within the DC government. And so one thing that we often will do is we'll work with the the hearing, the Hearing Loss Agency of America in DC, their chapter because one of their biggest things for them with this in the past years, many of the senior citizens who are actually struggling to get captioning in public meetings, or even just getting it into written form. So this is a really great example of how the Office could grow and really benefit many. And we, you know, it would be more general information that would become available in different formats during these hearings for the bill, and also other bills, you know, for, like in movie theaters, getting open captioning for movie theaters, and there are captionings that were provided for the hearing. But that's not something that they typically do.
Robb Dooling
And then many of the reporters who would go to the hearing, they're very used to going to DC Council hearings, and working very, very hardly, to quote everybody to make sure that they're getting everything correctly. And then they saw this, like, Oh my gosh, they love the captioning, it saves so much of their lives made it so much easier! They have the transcript right there in front of them. So you know, it the repeat- even the reporters who are hearing, they love it too, it makes their job that much easier. The captioning was great for everybody, having it at that, that meeting. So the advocates for the DC Agency of the Deaf, and, and HLAA of DC, they've already been doing a lot of that to show the results that they've had in the past few years. And so right now, DC, the HLAA, they're having an online meeting, meeting a virtual meeting. And they always have ASL interpreters for them. So, you know, this factor, you know, they are able to post part of their meeting, and you know, the deaf people then don't have to request an interpreter. It's easy, it's just there, they can watch it, you know, during the day on Facebook, I mean, they can be part of the vote now and part of the discussion. And so it would look like you know, an increase, you know, not necessarily like with taxing the rich, you know, that could be more of a broader discussion.
Robb Dooling
And so there's been big, you know, improvements for Deaf and Hard of Hearing involved in the political process. And that is, you know, a lot of those barriers that we have been dealing with, especially, you know, for example, with 2017, back about four years ago to DC, the Department of Transportation, they did host a meeting a public meeting at Gallaudet University. And there was a discussion about roads in the area. But they didn't request an interpreter. So it's, you know, hearing, a hearing meeting with the, for the deaf people of that area near Gallaudet. But there were many deaf people that wanted to speak up and be involved, and they live in the Gallaudet area. And so one of the Deaf- we had actually a volunteer who interpreted for the meeting, you know, it was like, two hours of simcomming, and it was not great, but it was the best solution we had at that time.
Robb Dooling
But you know, now in the DC government realm, there are many people working in the DC government that have really good intentions of trying to make the world a better place, but they just don't have the awareness or the resources that we experienced people in, especially within the DC Public Schools, like Brianne, and her struggles with, you know, the whole education process in the Office of Disability Rights, and how to, you know, educate these other people, including the schools and how to request interpreters, and how to make these meetings accessible. Also, parents, teacher conferences, for example, you know, I'm very excited about this. ODBH being able to help everyone in the DC government spectrum in how to really make things accessible for not just for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing, but really, all people with differing disabilities.
Jenny C
That's great. Brianne, do you have anything to add?
Brianne Burger
So Robb, really touched on a lot of different areas like that with education, captioning videos, making sure that everything is accessible. I would like to add also with with employment and entrepreneurship, um setting up businesses and things. I just feel that DC's still really low with employment with deaf people, employing deaf people. And we could do better with that, with education for deaf people as well. Um here in DC, we really need to try to progress like the rest of the country. We have 17,000 Deaf and Hard of Hearing people.
[INTERPRETER 1: I'm sorry, 17,000 Deaf who work in federal government?]
Brianne Burger
We have 17,000 employees that are Deaf that work for federal government, but DC government, you know, there's very, very few and far in between. Why don't they hire more? Many of us are qualified, and we're looking looking for work. That's another thought as well. So I hope that OD, ODBH can help with that, you know, encourage that process. with working with deaf people with all levels.
Brianne Burger
Have you heard the expression "Deaf Gain"? Well, for example, anything that benefits Deaf will benefit hearing people as well. For example, closed captions, you know, first they put it on the TV, you know, inside the TV back in 1990s, in the 90s. And then hearing people were thrilled like, you know, now I can turn the captions on, and I can watch everything with captions on the TV. So Robb had said that, you know, many were reporting that they were thrilled that they can use caption. Um, instead of writing everything, that's one thing that's like a Deaf Gain. Another example, um Gallaudet University, they have a football huddle, you know, where all the football team gets together, the football huddle. So back then, you know, where teams used to walk around on the field, and they'd be screaming at each other? Well, the Deaf players that, you know, they would sign to each other. And then they realized that the opposing team knew sign language. So they're looking like "Oh!" so they decided they didn't want the opposite team to know what they were saying to each other. So now they you know, get really tight into a huddle and they kind of sign in the circle with each other before each football game. And now today, the football huddle is everywhere in the NFL, like every team does a huddle now. But that started from deaf people. So that was that was like a Deaf Gain for hearing society. So with ODBH in DC, it will be it will be Deaf Gains for all DC residents, including hearing people as well. Everything that this office provides would be amazing, it will enhance everyone's lives in DC.
Jenny C
Absolutely. That's great. And I didn't know that fact about football, though I don't, to be fair, I don't know many facts about football [Laughs]. But that it's, yeah, that's fascinating. Well, I'm very excited to see what this office does for the people of DC. And Robb, you also serve as an ANC Commissioner, as we've mentioned, what are some of the other projects that you're passionate about for DC and its people?
Robb Dooling
Addressing climate change. So local policy has a huge role in that, you know, bigger actually than the federal level, the local level, we can do things and make big differences within the lives and sustainable- sustainability of things. People with disabilities also have more risk with flooding, struggles with severe heat, mobility, and also in public space. So we are very motivated specifically with accessibility around public transportations, specifically also off H Street. And we you know, we're locals here in DC and so we you know, have a lot of choice. There's a lot of choice for politicians, we want our public to be like this, like almost like a highway. Okay, so but there's choice there, there's choice here from being this connecting point from Maryland to Virginia, even like coming through DC. So all of these cars that come in from out of state, you know, like coming in, out and through DC, you know, so we can make that, make things more like walker-friendly and easier for people who want to ride bikes, or ride the buses, or um having more family or green spaces. And so right now we live in Maryland, off Maryland Avenue, Northeast DC. And so for many years, it's been, it's a four lane highway, but recently, we had a change to, you know, there's been a lot of um, a green median area with many trees and plants, and they've added some bike lanes, and some more bus accessible areas and walking space. And everybody loves it, you know, and they feel more like a neighborhood here, you know, especially with, there's being so much asphalt, you know, and so it is much, it is much more beneficial in regards to climate change.
Jenny C
That's wonderful. Well, Brianne, and Robb, what do you what do you suggest to other advocates who want to become more involved in DC, or beyond in amplifying Deaf voices, because you've both- you've accomplished a lot here in DC. I
Robb Dooling
Uh, I'll go. Yeah, so in, you know, our lives, it is easy to forget about state government, local government, you know, what the taxes are actually paid for, but our taxes that we pay, sometimes 1000s and $10,000, every year for these government services that we never actually get to use. So you know, we become tired, and I'm not oftentimes having enough motivation to even reach out to contact them. But we need to remember that there are many people within government that actually do care about improving our lives, and we pay the taxes for them. So many people, you know, are a little bit afraid to actually reach out to their local elected officials, but many of them love to actually hear from their constituents, building those relationships and how we, you know, recruit. In Charles Allen, you know, he's, he's our champion for this office from a long time ago, in 2014. Brianne was the one doing office hours, you know, typing, looking for things online, like, who their local representatives were. And so Brianne went to the office hour- went into office hours when they needed the Deaf office. And then it was a few years later, another Deaf advocate and myself also went to that office, where it was like near a coffee shop in the area, and their office hours were during COVID. And so sometimes they would hold them outside. And so we would go, and understand it is very hard in terms of accessibility, but you know you got to try and get some kind of recovery, you know, because there, there are people, though, that were willing to write back and forth, sometimes we would ask them to get an interpreter and you know, even just a volunteer somebody from the neighborhood- we really did try to be very creative and trying to make ourselves be able to be heard by our local government. So it is important that we speak up and reach out, so we can actually affect the change that we want to see in this world. So if you say, you know, that there are Deaf advocates in other areas that are getting these bills passed in regards to captioning in movie theaters, or even in bars, or, you know, trying to open up offices, contact our office, you know, reach out to the local representatives and find out who your champion could be for your area.
Robb Dooling
And that's going on in Wisconsin, or did happen in Wisconsin a few years ago, I do forget the name of the Wisconsin state legislator. So this Wisconsin legislator was speaking with a lot of their Deaf constituents. And they announced that he would not, would not shave his beard uh until the accessibility law. So, there's a lot there are a lot more important people with disabilities, you know, and we are invisible. And 25% of adults have a disability. But what people don't think of those numbers, they think they're much lower and they think you know, that they're much smaller communities than, than they actually are. So, my advice is just be creative. Reach out to your representatives. And sometimes, you know, it is frustrating. You know, like, they might not answer an email, respond quickly to your phone calls like, but always try, always try to reach out to them and contact them. You could even go to their offices in person if you wanted to. And we've actually had to do that ourselves many times before going in person being like, Hello, we've tried to call you, we've tried to email you, and then they're like, Oh, you know, they're friendly. They tried to be friendly at first. And so do we go and you don't want to be confrontational. And so we did learn that the hard way. And so we just kind of keep the connection and not burn any bridges. And so we have made mistakes, but we've learned on this journey. And so, you know, you just have to sometimes walk into that office and say, Hello, I've called and email you, I would like to speak with you. And then, I'm very excited to talk to you about x, y, and z, and then get that conversation started.
Brianne Burger
I have two things that I learned. One, like Robb said, making relationships, building relationships, not only with local representations, local representatives, of course, they're important, but also, you know, with with other Deaf advocates, um Hard of Hearing advocates, reach out organizations. Reach out to your, reach out to your local organizations- Deaf organizations, Hard of Hearing organizations, hearing organizations, all of it, work with them to form you know, relationships to work together. That's really, it's really helpful that way. Because I don't know how much success I would have had, if I didn't meet Robb, or Seans, or some of the other people together, we are more successful than being alone. Um, so that's truly important. That's the first one.
Brianne Burger
And the other thing I learned also: persistence, persistence, be persistent. Just I mean, I really learned don't just email one time, email, and send another email and send another email, call, leave a message, you know, maybe walk into the office, introduce yourself, you know, that that repetition over and over again. I mean, but understand in an appropriate way, you know, not like, it's not like you're stalking or anything like that, don't don't show up in like you're harassing or anything like that every single day. No, you know, I do have to remind myself, but you know, maybe send an email and the next two weeks or every two weeks, you know, not only me, but taking turns within your community. Like for an example, I send an email, maybe two weeks later, Robb will send an email, another two weeks, another representative will send an email. So that person is hearing from more than one person. And they know, Wow, you know, these people are interested and motivated. If you keep hearing from the same person over and over again, it's easy for them to say, you know, Oh well, and kind of deny you. But if you keep hearing emails and getting, trying to get in touch with other people, they're gonna see that you're interested and you're motivated and as a group that you want this. So that's another thing is that it's, it's persistence is key, being persistent. So building relationships and continuing to be persistent.
Robb Dooling
I just want to add something. Yeah. And so I just kind of wanted to share a good example of that. The grassroots thing applies to everything with politics. For example, if you feel your tax money that you've paid into your state, if you feel that part of that money should be used to pay for new park, a park near your home, or, you know, you could simply start a community group for this community garden, and so it would be helpful to pay for, to help pay for the park. I mean, this, I mean, the things that are easy to ignore are those types of things. And so it is very important to then email and if you get your neighbor, and you're getting other people to agree with you that can also call in, it's a little bit harder for them to ignore multiple phone calls and emails from like two, three, four people, especially if it's all about the same thing. So that's just what I wanted to ad.
Jenny C
Thank you, yeah. Make it so that you can't be ignored, I like that. We always like to talk about people making what John Lewis called "good trouble," of course. Well, I want to thank you so much. Yes. Thank you so much again, Brianne Berger and Robb Dooling for being with us today. This was a fantastic discussion. So thank you both for your good work for the people of DC.
Brianne Burger
Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today.
Robb Dooling
Yes, thank you. Thank you so much.
Jenny C
You just listened to "Access This" on the DC Public Library Podcast, recorded from the Labs recording studio in the historic modernized Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library in downtown Washington, DC. You can reach out to the Center for Accessibility at DCPL by emailing DCPLaccess@DC.gov. Everyone stay safe, and stay accessible.